His remarks were just as rambling as Petersons, veering from Trump and Sanders to Dostoevsky to the refugee crisis to the aesthetics of Nazism. It is often claimed that true or not that religion makes some otherwise bad people do good things. Happiness is a confused notion, basically it relies on the subjects inability or unreadiness to fully confront the consequences of his / her / their desire. No. From todays experience, we should rather speak to Steven Weinbergs claim that while without religion good people would have been doing good things and bad people bad things, only religion can make good people do bad things. Iran is a land of contradictions where oppression and freedom uneasily coexist. [1], Around 3,000 people were in Meridian Hall in Toronto for the event. 2 Piano Mono - moshimo sound design. What if secretly they know she would kill her child again. Peterson stated that although capitalism produces inequalities, it is not like in other systems, or even parts of the world compared to the so-called Western civilization as it also produces wealth, seen in statistical data about the economic growth and reduction of poverty worldwide, providing an easier possibility to achieve happiness. Remove him from his enemies and he is a very poor example of a very old thing the type of writer whom, from Samuel Smiles Self-Help to Eckhart Tolles The Power of Now, have promised simple answers to complex problems. How did China achieve it? Thats what I would like to insist on we are telling ourselves stories about ourselves in order to acquire a meaningful experience of our lives. statement. Burgis, Ben; Hamilton, Conrad Bongard; McManus, Matthew; Trejo, Marion (2020). Peterson's more practically-oriented style also made his arguments a bit more approachable to non-academics. So, what about the balance equality and hierarchy? The Hidden Argument in the Zizek/Peterson Debate, From a - Medium So, I agree that human life of freedom and dignity does not Error type: "Forbidden". El inters que suscit dicho encuentro descansa en gran parte en el carisma de sus protagonistas que con relativo xito han sabido posicionarse como rostros mediticos y . It came right at the end of ieks opening 30-minute remarks. Are you also ready to affirm that Hitler was our enemy because his story was not heard? And they both agreed, could not have agreed more, that it was all the fault of the academic left. The very premise of tonight's event is that we all participate in the life of, thought. The rest of the debate was (if memory serves) also interesting, but it gets even talking about wherever he felt like that was tenuously related rather than It's quite interesting, but it's not Rules for Life, as if there were such things. Transcript of Zizek vs. Peterson Discussing - True Falsehoods What qualifies them to pass a judgement in such a delicate matter? I can see no threat to free creativity in this program on the contrary, I saw health care and education and so on as enabling me to focus my life on important creative issues. The Peterson-iek encounter was the ultra-rare case of a debate in 2019 that was perhaps too civil. Globalnews.ca your source for the latest news on presidential debate. Zizek expressed his agreement with Petersons critique of PC culture, pointing out that he is attacked as much by the Left that he supposedly represents as the right. Both rejected happiness as a primary goal for individuals and societies. This is why as many perspicuous philosophers clearly saw, evil is profoundly spiritual, in some sense more spiritual than goodness. On Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson: Nature, Culture, and the Peterson and Zizek Debate Transcription : r/zizek - reddit Peterson: Otherwise, the creative types would sit around and see them again. Community Video : Free Community : Free Download, Borrow and - Archive We are never just instruments of some higher cause. Zizek and Peterson sell books for cash, but cash is just what you need for the real prize: the minds of men. So it seems to me likely we will see tonight not only deep differences, but also surprising agreement on deep questions. EL DEBATE DEL SIGLO: Slavoj iek y Jordan Peterson Disfrut la discusin filosfica entre Michel Onfay y Alain Badiou , pesos pesados del pensamiento alternativo, y qued satisfecho. Debate Peterson-iek - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre We are spontaneously really free. It was billed as a meeting of titans and that it was not. I mean primarily so called popularly neural-link, the direct link between our brain and digital machines, and then brains among themselves. Maybe we should turn around a little bit Marxs famous thesis, in our new century we should say that maybe in the last century we tried all too fast to try the world. [15][16] On the example of China, he tried to connect happiness, capitalism, and Marxism as well criticize China itself[16] and asserted that "less hierarchical, more egalitarian social structure would stand to produce great amounts of this auxiliary happiness-runoff". Peterson also supported the capitalist system, claiming that the business know-how and leadership skills of the capitalists add economic value to the system. Again, the wager of democracy is that and thats the subtle thing not against competence and so on, but that political power and competence or expertise should be kept apart. EL DEBATE DEL SIGLO: Slavoj iek y Jordan Peterson Please feel free to correct this document. Its not just that in spite of all our natural and cultural differences the same divine sparks dwells in everyone. Regarding how the debate was receiving, judging from Twitter and some quick Im Zentrum der Dissertation steht die Typologisierung des homme fatal, des verhngnisvollen Verfhrers innerhalb der englischen Erzhlliteratur von der Romantik bis ins fin de sicle. In intellectual circles, the recent debate of the century between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson and Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek was a real heavyweight bout. Error message: "The request cannot be completed because you have exceeded your. Let me now briefly deal with in a friendly way I claim with what became known sorry for the irony as the lobster topic. Competencies for what? Slavoj iek - RationalWiki Transcripts | Jordan Peterson An archive of transcribed public lectures, interviews, podcasts, and YouTube videos. [2], Peterson has been seen as misusing the term postmodernism, referring to postmodern philosophy, as a stand-in term for the far-right and antisemitic Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. iek & Peterson Debate . or a similar conservation organization. But, it is instantly clear how this self-denigration brings a profit of its own. Or, they were making wine in the usual way, then something went wrong with fermentation and so they began to produce champagne and so on. Really? 'Crustacean Jung v Cocaine Hegel': Zizek-Peterson debate - RT Inters mundial en el "debate del siglo" entre los - Infobae Studies suggest that meditation can quiet the restless brain. I'd say his criticism is Zizek's opening statement is probably the most interesting part of the debate. The Church of England is debating if believers should stop using gendered language when talking about God. Along the same lines, one could same that if most of the Nazi claims about Jews they exploit Germans, the seduce German girls were true, which they were not of course, their anti-Semitism would still be a pathological phenomenon, because it ignored the true reason why the Nazis needed anti-Semitism. In the 1920s many Germans experienced their situation as a confused mess. something wrong was said therein, you ought to engage the content rather than And if you think The same goes also from godless, Stalinist Communists they are the ultimate proof of it. So, the term Cultural Marxism plays that of the Jewish plot in anti-Semitism. Zizek will suit up for Team M and Peterson will wear the "C" on his hometown jersey. Egalitarianism often de facto means, I am ready to renounce something so that others will also not have it. This page was last edited on 12 August 2019, at 11:41. They needed enemies, needed combat, because in their solitudes, they had so little to offer. And I must agree. But, a danger lurks here, that of a subtly reversal: dont fall in love thats my position with your suffering. They needed enemies, needed combat, because in their solitudes, they had so little to offer.. [19] Harrison Fluss and Sam Miller of Jacobin reported that Peterson made many factual errors, such as misunderstanding the labour theory of value, incorrectly associating Marx broadly with identity politics, and denying the existence of a Marxist philosophy of nature. Instead they often engage in self-destructive behavior. [16][17] iek was also critical of the multiculturalist liberals who espouse identity politics and that Western countries should rather fix the situation in immigrants' home countries than accept them. matters: meaning, truth, freedom. He gave a minor history of the French critical theorists who transposed categories of class oppression for group oppression in the 1960s. First, since we live in a modern era, we cannot simply refer to an unquestionable authority to confer a mission or task on us. You know, its not very often that you see a country's, largest theatre packed for an intellectual debate, but that's what we're all here for tonight. Book deals for political prisoners still in jail. sticking to "his camp", but I feel like the resulting discussing ended up more The debate can best be seen as a collection of interesting ideas from both Neither can face the reality or the future. It's funny to see Peterson 76.3K ,809 . TikTok Zizek is my dad (@zizekcumsock): "From the Zizek-Peterson debate. [15], Later in the debate, iek agreed with Peterson's opening analysis and called for regulation and limitation of the market for capitalism to reduce the risk of natural and social disasters. [2][16] The monologue itself was less focused as it touched many topics and things like cultural liberalism, Nazism, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Fyodor Dostoevsky, and xenophobia, among others;[2][15] and against the expectation of the debate format did not defend Marxism. Learn how your comment data is processed. Peterson's opening remarks were disappointing even for his fans in the audience. So, I agree that human life of freedom and dignity does not consist just in searching for happiness, no matter how much we spiritualise it, or in the effort to actualise our inner potentials. This Was An Interesting Debate. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. In fact, this was a surprise for many, but both men tended to agree a whole lot, My hero is here a black lady, Tarana Burke, who created the #MeToo campaign more than a decade ago. [Scattered Audience applause and cheers]Both Doctor iek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debatewe hopewill transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame Similarly, he's crusading against Share Highlights of the debate of the century: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek on Facebook, Share Highlights of the debate of the century: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek on Twitter, Share Highlights of the debate of the century: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek on LinkedIn, Subscribe for counterintuitive, surprising, and impactful stories delivered to your inbox every Thursday, Slavoj iek vs Jordan Peterson Debate Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism (Apr 2019), Why winning isnt the real purpose of arguing. They were a vague and not particularly informed (by his own admission) reading of The Communist Manifesto. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. interesting because of it. Get counterintuitive, surprising, and impactful stories delivered to your inbox every Thursday. They passionately support LGBT, they advocate charities and so on. Zizek called out for the necessity of addressing climate change while also focusing on such issues as Bernie Sanders, whom he called an old-fashioned moralist. Zizek sees Sanders as being unfairly portrayed as a radical. In a similar way, the Alt-Right obsession with cultural Marxism expresses the rejection to confront that phenomenon they criticise as the attack of the cultural Marxist plot moral degradation, sexual promiscuity, consumerist hedonism, and so on are the outcomes of the immanent dynamic of capitalist societies. Should we then drop egalitarianism? It didn't help Peterson's case that he came into a debate about Marxism with . It has been said of the debate that "nothing is a greater waste of time." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. They are both highly attuned to ideology and the mechanisms of power, and yet they are not principally political thinkers. (Chinas success makes a joke out of the whole premise of the debate: the old-fashioned distinction between communism and capitalism.) Once traditional authority loses its substantial power, it is not possible to return to it. And that was the great irony of the debate: what it comes down to is that they believe they are the victims of a culture of victimization. In Peterson's defense, he did manage to stay much closer to the actual topic of the debate, while Zizek jumped wildly between a dizzying number of subjects. Really? The first and sadly predominate reaction is the one of protected self-enclosure The world out there is in a mess, lets protect ourselves by all sorts of walls. In the debate, Peterson and iek agreed on many issues, including a criticism of political correctness and identity politics. It's also entertaining to watch, and I suspect this was the mode in which most There was a livestream which people could pay to access that peaked at around 6,000 viewers. Conservative thinkers claim that the origin of our crisis is the loss of our reliance on some transcendent divinity. Scholarly publications with full text pdf download. At least Marxism is closed off now that Marx It made me wonder about the rage consuming all public discussion at the moment: are we screaming at each other because we disagree or because we do agree and we cant imagine a solution? 2 define the topic, if . intellectuals). First, a brief introductory remark. Why do I still cling to this cursed name when I know and fully admit that the 20th century Communist project in all its failure, how it failed, giving birth to new forms of murderous terror. It can well secretly invert the standard renunciation accomplished to benefit others. But even it its extreme form opening up our borders to the refugees, treating them like one of us they only provide what in medicine is called a symptomatic treatment. IQ, Politics, and the Left: A Conversation with Douglas Murray Transcript Nina Paley: Animator Extraordinaire Transcript Aspen Ideas Festival: From the Barricades of the Culture Wars Transcript It also helps to put Zizek's ideas and role in modern political discussion in . Slavoj Zizek Peterson Debate - DEBATGR I am not making just a joke here because I think it is exactly like this and thats the lesson psychoanalysis, that our sexuality, our sexual instincts are, of course, biologically determined but look what we humans made out of that. He's the sort of aging quitter we all hope to never be. attacking the manifesto isn't perhaps attacking Communism or even Marxism as its Peterson and iek represent a basic fact of intellectual life in the twenty-first century: we are defined by our enemies. officially desire. I would like to refer to a classic Daniel Bell, Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism written back in 1976, where the author argues that the unbounded drive of modern capitalism undermines the moral foundations of the original protestant ethics. Below is the transcript of Zizek's introductory statement. Peterson-iek debate - Wikipedia Web nov 14, 2022. What appears as its excesses its regulatory zeal is I think an impotent reaction that masks the reality of a defeat. And sure, the level of the discussion might have been unappealing to all the This is how refugees are created. Slavoj iek on His Stubborn Attachment to Communism (Ep. 84 - BONUS) Just remember the outcry against my critique of LGBT+ ideology, and Im sure that if the leading figures were to be asked if I were fit to stand for them, they would turn in their graves even if they are still alive. Weeks before the debate began, I already saw many similarities between Zizek and Peterson, such as their views on struggle, their stance against political correctness, and the problem on ideology. A big deal, with huge numbers, and really very little underneath. He doesn't do much to defend Communism In his turn, the self-proclaimed pessimist Zizek didnt always stick the larger economic topics, and did not want to be called communist. I encourage you to watch the video or read the transcript Peterson and Zizek Debate - transcribed by John Li - johnmhli@berkeley.edu - 916 623 5512 - https://chicago.academia.edu/JohnLi - // I used both voice to text software and then a manual read through - there are still plenty of transcription errors I haven't caught and corrected (I didn't expect this to come out to be over 20 pages and how What does this mean? I am supposed to defend here the left, liberal line against neo-conservatives. Incidentally, so that you will not think that I do not know what I am talking about, in Communist countries those in power were obsessed with expanded reproduction, and were not under public control, so the situation was even worse. But I nonetheless found it interesting. They were making in the usual way, but the cheese got rotten and infected, smelling bad, and they said, oh my god, look, we have our own original French cheese. Having listened to the recent debate between the philosopher Slavoj Zizek and the politician Daniel Hannan, one has the impression of having assisted to a sophisticated version of a sophomoric discussion between a marijuana-smoking hippy and the head of the Tory Students' Association at a posh college. Please note, during tonight's presentation, video, audio, and flash photography is prohibited and we have a strict zero, tolerance policy for any heckling or disruption. Due to a planned power outage on Friday, 1/14, between 8am-1pm PST, some services may be impacted. I've talked to (which, unfortunately were more fanboys than rigorous so that ultimately the worst thing that can happen is to get what we And we should act in a large scale, collective way. But if violence perpetuated in the name of an idea is supposed to disqualify the idea, then more people have died in the name of communism and nationalism than any other idea. [, moderator, president of Ralston College, Doctor Stephen Blackwood. of the Soviet Union would be pretty important. I'd say this reminds me a lot of what I've seen from him "[23], In commenting directly on how the debate was received, iek wrote: "It is typical that many comments on the debate pointed out how Petersons and my position are really not so distinct, which is literally true in the sense that, from their standpoint, they cannot see the difference between the two of us: I am as suspicious as Peterson. Die Analyse dieser Figur findet mit starkem Bezug zur Etablierung I call this the tankie-bashing bit. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Hitler provided a story, a plot, which was precisely that of a Jewish plot: we are in this mess because of the Jews. [12][13], The debate was divided into two thirty-minute introductions from each participant, followed by shorter ten-minute responses and time at the end for additional comments and answers to questions posed by the moderator, Stephen J. clear these are coherent thoughts from the same thinker. This is a pity, because Peterson made an argument I have seen many times, one which is incredibly easy to beat." A renunciation of pleasure can easily turn in pleasure of renunciation itself. They were a vague and not particularly informed (by his own admission) reading of The Communist Manifesto. with only surface differences (some, though not all, could be chalked to their more disjointed. Read the full transcript. It Was In This Opening Argument That Zizek Effectively Won The Debate To The Extent It Was A Debate At All. Not merely opinion or prejudice, but the realm of truth, access through evidence and, argument. Democratic freedom, rapturous religion, and newspapers created a hotbed for social experimentation in 19th-century America. The Zizek-Peterson Debate In early 2019, after the occasional potshot at one another, it was announced that iek would debate Jordan Peterson in Toronto. White, left liberals love to denigrate their own culture and claim euro-centrism for our evils. [1][10][11] The debate was also broadcast on Croatian Radiotelevision the following week. Why would the proletariat be more capable of leading? The digitalisation of our brains opens up unheard of new possibilities of control. It projects, or transposes, some immanent antagonism however you call it, ambiguity, tension of our social economic lives onto an external cause, in exactly the same way. Second on how modernity is characterized by the absence of authority (and iek asked what Peterson meant by cultural Marxists when postmodern thinkers, like Foucault, werent Marxist at all. 25 Debate quotes that show Jordan Peterson doesn't know what - Medium Presidential debate 2020 RECAP What happened in the first election from www.the-sun.com. imblazintwo 4 yr. ago SLAVOJ IEK: . April 20, 2019. ", "Snimka dvoboja titana ieka i Petersona", "HRT Je Jedina Televizija U Europi Koja Je Dobila Pravo Prikazati 'Debatu Stoljea': Evo kada moete pogledati filozofski dvoboj iek - Peterson", "Jordan Peterson vs Slavoj iek was more a performance than a debate", "Jordan Peterson i Slavoj iek: Debata stoljea ili precijenjeni show? Boston 24/7 with principal mcafee Regarding to the Peterson-Zizek debate as a whole, yes, I would recommend a listen. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. It can be watched on Jordan Peterson's channel here. Who could? First, on how happiness is often the wrong This is I think now comes the problematic part for some of you maybe the problem with political correctness. Hitler was one of the greatest storytellers of the 20th century. To cite this article: Ania Lian (2019): The Toronto Debate: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek on Ethics and Happiness, The European Legacy, DOI: 10.1080/10848770.2019.1616901 We have to find some I deeply appreciate evolutionary talk. In this sense, the image of Donald Trump is also a fetish, the last thing a liberal sees before confronting actual social tensions. For transcription of Zizeks first exposition (the actually coherent one I believe), I found that it had already been transcribed on Reddit during my own transcription so I integrated it into this one. He also denied there is an inherent tendency under capitalism to mistreat the workers, stating you dont rise to a position of authority that is reliable in a human society primarily by exploiting other people. Overall, Peterson appeared to see capitalism as the best, though imperfect, economic model. Let me mention just the idea that is floating around of solar radiation management, the continuous massive dispersal of aerosols into our atmosphere, to reflect and absorb sunlight, and thus cool the planet. Tonight, "philosopher" Slavoj iek will debate "psychologist" Jordan Peterson in Toronto, ostensibly on the subject of Capitalism vs. Marxism. So, how to react to this? "almost all ideas are wrong". So, where does Communism, just to conclude, where does Communism enter here? First of all it's much shorter than Peterson Vs Harris. And I also think this may be critical to some of you there is a problem with capitalism here for the simple reasons that its managers not because of their evil nature, but thats the logic of capitalism care to extend self-reproduction and environmental consequences are simply not part of the game. First, a brief introductory remark. Again, even if there if the reported incidents with the refugees there are great problems, I admit it even if all these reports are true, the popularist story about them is a lie. semi-intentionally quite funny. It's hard not to crack up when out of time for [3], During an event at the Cambridge Union in November 2018, iek stated that Peterson used "pseudo-scientific[4] evidence" (3:40). iek didnt really address the matter at hand, either, preferring to relish his enmities. This one is from the Guardian. this event had the possibility to reach a much wider audience. No his conservatism is a post-modern performance, a gigantic ego trip. A democracy this logic to the political space in spite of all differences in competence, the ultimate decision should stay with all of us. El debate entre iek y Peterson se produjo en Toronto, Canad. Take what is perhaps the ultimate rogue state Congo. and our Im far from a simple social constructionism here. It has been said of the debate that " nothing is a greater waste of time ." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. Both of these men know that they are explicitly throwbacks. Please join. He couldnt believe it. cordial and respectful, something I really appreciated. Modernity means that yes, we should carry the burden, but the main burden is freedom itself. Peterson debate Transcript? : r/zizek - reddit live commentary is quite funny. Peterson and Zizek Debate - transcribed by John Li - johnmhli@berkeley.edu - 916 623 5512 - https://chicago.academia.edu/JohnLi - // I used both voice to text software and then a manual read through - there are still plenty of transcription errors I havent caught and corrected (I didnt expect this to come out to be over 20 pages and how Petersons (native speaker of English) has been the harder one to transcribe. T. S. Eliot, the great conservative, wrote, quote what happens when a new work of art is created is something that happens simultaneously to all the work of art which preceded it. Web second presidential debate: The event will be broadcast live across. [1][14] Its topic was which "political-economic model provided the great opportunity for human happiness: capitalism or Marxism". Peterson was humiliated deeply in it, having to admit he'd never read any Marx despite demonizing him for years, and only having skimmed one of Marx' books before showing up to debate Marxism with an actual Marx scholar (among other. Answer (1 of 5): Well, that 'debate' occurred in April of 2019. Last night, Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek debated each other at the Sony Centre in Toronto. In the end Peterson-iek was less of a heavyweight boxing match than a WWE Grand Slam. And what about foreign interventions in Iraq and Syria, or by our proxies like Saudi Arabia in Yemen? A debate speech format follows the below pattern. If we compare with Trump with Bernie Sanders, Trump is a post-modern politician at its purist while Sanders is rather an old fashion moralist. First, of all, the commons of external nature, threatened by pollution, global warming and so on. Peterson retreats into the integrity of character and Judeo-Christian values as he sees them.
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